It's a Long and Dirty Road

    Over the last four years Mark Hughes has come a long way in comedy. At the moment Hughes is half the driving force behind the ever-expanding Comedy Shocker series. Starting as a novelty and growing with every show it's quickly become a staple in the Vancouver comedy scene. Every show has a fun new lineup of dirty people with the kind of jokes that'll make a sailor blush. From show to show the topics change as consistently as the line-up and, while everyone in the audience will certainly have an idea of what they hope to see, there will always be something unexpected in store. Between organizing the Comedy Shocker, and spending an unfathomable amount of time on stage, Hughes was able to find some time to chat about the path of a dirty comic. Following the rocky road of learning how read an audience and sell a joke, Hughes talks candidly about the ups and downs that define his path as a comedian.

DK: Hi Mark, it's good to see you again. So, you're one of the organizers of the Comedy Shocker series, how
        long has it been going? What's the frequency of production?

MH: Hello, thank you. It happens four times a year. We're now into our third year of doing it.

DK: If you could have anyone, living or dead, join the line-up, who would you have?

MH: Living or dead... I would like to have Stanhope headline.

DK: That guy is awesome! Have you always had Comedy Shocker at the Rickshaw?

MH: Mostly. We started out at Havana Theater but it sold out so fast we had to turn away a lot of people. We
        realized we needed a bigger place. We found the Sin Bin. Before we landed there, though, we were
        booked at another place but got kicked out for being too offensive. They told us four days before the
        show. The funny thing was that no one complained. The venue, in their defense, didn't really know
        what type of show we were. They should have known. We told them. They saw our Twitter and our
        jokes and said, “NO. No. NO!” They saw a couple of things we posted, one was racial and one was
        a pedophile joke. They didn't want to stand behind any of that. Another thing I'll give them in their
        defense, they run a business and, because the jokes were in public, they didn't want to be publicly
        associated with it. What happens behind closed doors during a show is one thing, but once it's on Twitter
        it looks like they're endorsing it. It's not good for business. However, four days before the show,
        breaching contract isn't the way to do business either. To be able to say we got kicked out for being
        too offensive sounds good though. (laughs)

Like the FB page or follow on Twitter to receive updates on show times.
www.facebook.com/ComedyShocker      https://twitter.com/comedyshocker

DK: No kidding. That's a huge hassle for everyone involved. (Laughs) I've seen your show, I can see why
        some people would get upset or choose to disassociate. Outside of Comedy Shocker and doing
        performance arts fests, how often are you on stage?

MH: Five to ten times a week in Vancouver. If I'm in a bigger city, fifteen to twenty times. That's how it is
        with stand up. Get up as much as possible. That's how you get better. You have to have an audience to
        work out a joke. You have to get people's reactions. That's one of the things about comedy, it's a very long
        game. It takes years to get really good at it. I'm four years in and I'm just starting to realize that this is
        what it entails. I'm learning how much I don't know.

DK: What's been the biggest learning curve?

MH: How to make jokes palatable. It's not just how they're written, but how how they're delivered, facial
        expression, correct placement, wording... Let's say I have a joke about drugs, sometimes the way it's
        originally written is one word off. I've gotta change one word to make it ok. Maybe it sounds weird,
        maybe not, but it's those little things that are such a steep learning curve for comedy. When
        people talk about how you can't joke about something because it's offensive, it's not so much the subject
        but the way it was written or delivered. That's been the biggest learning curve for me. Because I'm
        the dark and dirty, or whatever the fuck you call it guy, the journey's a bit harder and more fraught with
        danger, to a certain degree. I have a few more lessons to learn than your average comic. I have to learn
        how to sell a joke more than the next guy. I have to learn how to deal with more blow back.

DK: Bombing is inevitable. Have you learned to spot it early and redirect? How do you roll with it?

MH: uh... I'd say once every couple months I have a hard bomb where the whole set didn't go well at all.
        These days it's mostly a couple minutes doesn't go well, or maybe a few jokes didn't land. Often it seems
        like if it's going to happen, it's the second half. I open up strong then get to a joke and the audience
        just doesn't like it. It's that kind of thing. It's like Rodney Dangerfield said, “Just try to be impervious to
        it.” I just roll through like a tank. What separates me from most comics is that most comics have different
        sets for different crowds. I don't really differentiate too much. My material is pretty well my material.
        It doesn't vary that much so I don't have much leeway. If I'm in a show, within a certain margin of error,
        that's all I got. There's no toned down version. Triple X is probably my comfort zone, but NC17 is about
        as low as I go.

DK: (laughs) That's kind of funny. I never really found your material all that offensive.

MH: Yeeeah.... Normal people do, though. The average consumer does. I'm surprised by it too. (laughs) Most
        of my friends are like, “That's not that offensive,” and I'm saying, “I know! I don't think so, either!” 

DK: You've performed for a lot of 
        different types of audiences,
        what's been the most difficult 
        demographic that you've won
        over?

MH:..... hardest demographic... uhh.... middle to upper
        middle class white women.

DK: I would've guessed that. (laughs)

MH: (laughs) Yeah! Obviously,
        right?! They seem to set the tone for social acceptability these days. When I do a show, if anyone's gonna get offended,
        it's gonna be that demographic. Generally educated... not science educated... usually it's liberal arts or something.
        (laughs) They tend to have their own ideas of what is acceptable and what isn't. Generally speaking, they've lived
        pretty sheltered lives so hearing a guy like me might be the first time in their whole life they've heard someone talk
        like that. Some of them have their own trauma and stuff and I bring it out in them. That's a reality. I'll own that.
        I've been told that I trigger people with some of my shit. Honestly, I'd rather people didn't get upset. It'd be nice
        if everyone laughed and just had a good time. I'm not trying to fuck people up. I'm just playing with subjects and
        material that has a higher likelihood of it. I'm not gonna pander or change to appease anyone 'cuz then I'm not
        gonna wanna do it anymore.

DK: Do it as long as you enjoy it.

MH: That's the difference, I think, between me and a lot of others, it's just that my mind works the way it is and if I deviate
        from it too much I'm not gonna wanna do this anymore and I'm gonna quit. Other comics are probably more elastic,
        like, they find this funny as well as that so they'll just tuck the potentially controversial thing away for another time,
        whereas I don't find that funny, but I only   find this funny. People tell me all the time that I should just write clean.
        I don't like it. I'll accept the consequences of writing dirty.

DK: Absolutely. When that's your forte then go with it. Don't be apologetic.

MH: If they're not enjoying it at all, if they're doing it just to get acceptance or whatever... Why even bother?

DK: It just comes off as wrong. Someone recently said they were considering making that change. Trying to access a
        different audience with material they hated. It came down to the question: Can you live with yourself? Is it going
        to turn into a private hell where you have to do this horrible stuff that you hate, and internally your cringing with
        every syllable that drips out of your mouth like acrid  puke, or are you going to be ok with it? Can you train
        yourself to like garbage? It's about quality of life.

MH: Some people can. Some people are natural corporate comics. They just tell jokes that are fine and it doesn't
        bother them. Power to 'em. Some comics have their club routine, and then they have their corporate
        routine. They may not like their corporate routine that much but it pays the bills for them to do the club routine.
        Clubs pay too, but corporate pays way better.

DK: Corporate always pays better 'cuz they got corporate cash.

MH: They're not always the best audience 'cuz they're sometimes just at a party lookin' to drink and get laid, and not
        actually paying attention, but you're getting paid really well. Then there's comics that are sorta similar to me where
        what we do is what we do. We're not gonna get booked in lot's of places. Financially we're paying a heavy
        penalty. Not me so much, but, a guy like Stanhope, he's not going to get booked for like seventy percent of comedy
        shows that are out there. He's worked hard and put the time in. He's developed his own fan base so he doesn't need
        it. That's sorta the business model I wanna follow. The reality is that it's gonna be longer to follow Doug
        Stanhope than it would be John Mulaney. John Mulaney's more accessible, he's funnier to a broader group of people.
        He can hit way more demographics. Following Stanhope's model... it's like dating, (laughs) the pool of potential
        suitors is a lot smaller.... But they exist.

DK: That fan base is going to be the one that will go out of their way to see the show and to actually purchase the merch.
        Once you find that audience, they're the ones who will spend the money. For the more accessible performers, a lot of
        their fans will just download it. Their stuff is so available that no one thinks twice about downloading.

MH: Writing clean material that people will enjoy is as hard as writing the really harsh holocaust and rape jokes and
        making them actually funny. Stuff that is so run of the mill or safe.... where's the bite to make it funny? I'm not
        good at it. I'll admit it's a limitation. Guys like Seinfeld or Jim Breuer can. They can take some run of the mill
        stuff and make it great. It's a skill.

DK: Have you ever shared a stage with someone who's so fucking terrible that you really wanna leave?

MH: Yep. I've seen tonnes of shitty comics. There's more shitty comics than good ones. That's just a reality. That doesn't
        mean they won't get better. I watched my first set the other day and it was fucking horrible. Four years from now I'll
        watch a set from today or last night and cringe in horror. It's a natural progression. Unfortunately, the
        reality is that comedy is an industry. It's a business and money is still the paramount concern so there are still those
        who are working and making lots of money off of working comics who aren't that funny at all, but for some reason
        they are able to make a tonne off them. Sometimes it's a who-you-know thing too. If you're good at networking and
        schmoozing you can get gigs.

DK: Very true. Networking goes a long way. How did you come to the conclusion this is what you want to do?

MH: Someone told me I needed a creative outlet 'cuz I was spinnin' my tires in life. People had told me for years that I was
        funny so I thought, Fuck It. I'm gonna give it a try. It wasn't something I always wanted to do. I was a bit more
        reluctant. It's not for everyone, that's for sure.

DK: What was the biggest show you've done?

MH: I opened for Doug Stanhope at the Rickshaw. About 700 people showed up.

DK: Where do you ultimately want to go with it? Is touring on the horizon?

MH: I wanna go as far as it will take me. Whatever that means. Touring is always on the horizon but I'm limited right now
        in that I can't cross the border. I don't necessarily want to be super rich and famous, I mean I wouldn't refuse it if
        it came along. It would be nice to be able to make a living at it. If you're gonna make a living it means touring across
        the country, which isn't glamorous. My realistic goal would probably be to be able to tour and stuff but only take the
        gigs I wanna do that aren't too much of a pain in the ass. That would be something I'd like to get to one day. Sorta like
        Stanhope again, I wanna be the most famous person in a hundred feet 30 minutes before and after my show. That's
        it. (laughs) And have just enough clout that whatever circle I'm in, that if I don't show up to a dinner party or
        something no one would bug me for not going, and if I did, I could say whatever I wanted and no one would give
        me crap about it. For the rest of my life, I could say whatever I wanted and even if someone was offended they'd still
        just kiss my ass. That's all the power I want. That'd be it.

DK: That is what popularity buys. Also tits. They get that too. Invest in one, then the other.

MH: (laughs) Absolutely. Fuckin' exactly! I don't necessarily want people kissing my ass but it would be nice to be famous
        enough where I wouldn't have to get in an argument over an off-hand comment ever again.

DK: There'd be enough people lurking in the shadows to step in
        and say, “Hold on, Asshole. Let me give you context.”

MH: Exactly! (laughs) Or even if it was out and out wrong and
        terrible, people would just go, “Oh, Mark,” and totally
        dismiss it. (laughs)

DK (laughs) Speed that up: Start stuffing your bra and shave
        your legs. Slap on some lipstick and you can get away
        with murder. It's un-fucking- believable. Have you ever
        done a set in drag?

MH: (laughs) Drag queens get away with way more than regular
       comics. A couple months ago I did a show for this group of
        UBC students. I didn't do a full drag character. It was just
        me in a dress. The group is a student's group called the Free
        Speech Club. It's all about being able to talk about
        potentially controversial ideas without being shut down immediately as racist or homophobic so they're often accused
        of being alt-right, but they're really not. They just wanna be able to have discussions about topics that aren't
        “politically correct,” like immigration and things like that. So they put on this drag show called a Free Speech,
        Politically Incorrect Drag Show. Sounds great, right? (laughs) But even those kids, a lot of them are more
        conservative, they're not alt-right but they're more conservative than liberal. They get offended at shit too though.
        (laughs)

DK: (laughs) Oh yeah they do!

MH: (laughs) Oh yes, they do. Liberals will get upset if I say “faggot” or I make fun of rape or I say anything racist, right?
        Conservatives get upset when you make fun of anything to do with traditional values, religion, or sex. They're
        fucking weird about stuff! (laughs) What I say is that conservatives are just as big of faggots as liberals. That's
        how you piss off both parties. Just that statement right  there. (laughs)

DK: Yep! That one will piss everyone off.

MH: I just make jokes about whatever I want. People tell me that one side doesn't get offended but it's just not true.
        (laughs) Everyone's got their pet subject that you can't touch.

DK: I totally get that. When you did a show with that group, what was the biggest thing that upset them?

MH: uuumm.... sex stuff. Gratuitous talk about sex. Probably that. Fuckin' kids. They get weird about fucking kids, too.
        They tend to be about traditional values. It's like... you can make a racist joke but if it's anything to do with
        disrupting family values they don't like it. Most of the groups that the straight, white, middle class are defending
        or getting offended on behalf of... I've found gay people, trans people, black people, handicapped people,
        drug addicts, or whatever... they're not as easily offended as people think they are.

DK: Absolutely not. When you grow up in an environment where that kind off-colour language is everywhere, having it put
        into a humorous format pokes fun at the hostility that's been faced for so long. It highlights the silliness of a bigot's
        attitude and takes all the power out of it. That's the idea of a fuckin joke, is that it keeps things light and keeps things
        friendly. It puts the spotlight where it needs to be. It takes the piss out of bullshit. It's funny.

MH: That's the idea. That's the fun of doing it.

DK: Free speech needs to be unregulated to be free. To speak on behalf of someone else, without knowing how they feel
        about it, just denies them their free speech. And no one person represents an entire group anyway!

MH: Thank you! Absolutely!

DK: Thank you so much for taking the time to chat. 

Written by Dink Kickin'